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We, as the cycling club "MTB FORIS", with the support and permission of local authorities and institutions, have started the project of building a bicycle park called "MTB City road". We have done phase two of the project and now we want to add what we have done to OSM. The idea of this park is unique because it is a park intended for mtb cycling, and is located near the urban zone, next to the city of Sarajevo. The park consists of a forest in which we have arranged and marked offroa mtb trails, but the terrain is intersected by asphalt local roads, where there are houses. We have physically placed signs throughout the park, which say “MTB CITY ROAD” which tells cyclists to be in the park. Since the park covers a larger area, with parts of the forest, the lake, as well as urban parts, we are trying to properly add it all to OSM, but we are not sure which is the best solution. Can you help us do it right? This is a link to our website to see how we edited the interactive map on our website, to gain insight into what we need to do on OSM. http://mtb.4is.info/map/web-aplikacija-mtb-city-road-2/ And here is the “MTB City road” bike park on OSM. We have already added some content. https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit#map=13/43.8239/18.4056
This question is marked "community wiki".
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Please create relations for your cycle routes as described at this wiki page. In iD, click on the piece of road or track that you want to add to the new relation. Scroll down at the left. Hit "+" below "relations". Click the arrow to the right of where it says "choose parent relation" and then "new relation". Click "route features" then "cycle route" then supply the "name". To add further pieces of road to the relation, click on the next bit of road or track, scroll down at the left and hit "+" below "relations" again. Choose your previously added relation. When you're finished, click "save".
permanent link
This answer is marked "community wiki".
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Reading your website and studying what you want I learned that "MTB CITY ROAD" is a project. With this project you want to connect more interesting locations (kadino brdo, jezero toplik ...) with bicycle paths. You have marked the trails and now you want the cyclists to recognize them on the map in order to plan a trip to one of the locations. The best way is to connect the existing roads as already explained to you. Via RELATIONS, not a polygon On CYCLOSM will be visible. This map is used by cyclists I would ask you not to draw the paths you plan to do, and they do not currently exist, you are making a mistake. Some cyclists will get lost following what you have drawn on the maps. And neither you nor we want that. OSM maps represent the real situation on the ground. You can work on your plans on other platforms or on your website. best regards |
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Thanks everyone for the help. I definitely need it, because I would like to do this in the best possible way, so that the bicycle park is shown as it is. This park is specific in many ways. It is about covering a large area, ie it is intersected by urban parts (houses and public roads). For example, in order to connect all the contents of the park with connections, I would have to physically connect them in OSM, ie make a polygon through which they would be connected. I just tried to do that. I put a lot of effort and my time into drawing it on OSM. I drew the polygon only over public roads in order to connect, for example, the location of Lake Toplik and the location of Kadino Brdo. And I managed to solve it that way. However, the OSM administration deleted this polygon for me. I don’t understand how I can portray this park at OSM as one whole, because it’s physically really like that, and I want to show it at OSM because it exists. It is one big project of several phases of construction. We have only done the first phase, the second is in production, and the third will perform when the second is over. This will be one big beautiful amusement park mtb, which is unique in its character, which can be read in its name. I am also sending a sketch of the situation attached. The sketch ubrubo represents the location of the park.
I marked three entry / exit points in blue.
Please help me to do this in the best way? 3
No - you need to create route relations, as described above.
(13 Apr '21, 14:17)
SomeoneElse ♦
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you have completed the first part of the work, placed the signs physically at the locations and at OSM. Now just connect them by relations. When you finish the second part of the project, we will help you enter it in OSM properly. Remember that OSM represents the real situation on the ground. Not project planning.
(13 Apr '21, 14:29)
sava eskimo
Can you further clarify, how to create route relations? Take a look at the picture and you will see that they are physically separated, and I would have to show them connected (that is, that they belong to this bike park). It is very important for me to show this park in this way, because it is as physical as you can see in the picture, but also in the link I sent. It is very important that I bring all these locations into one whole, because they are in reality.
(13 Apr '21, 15:08)
MTB FORIS
You don't know how to draw road relations? The man explained it to you nicely. And you know how to do this: Changeset: 102866711 https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/102866711
(13 Apr '21, 15:26)
sava eskimo
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Maybe it would be useful to look at another area where a network of connecting MTB trails has been mapped. The link below should take you to the mountains north of Madrid in Spain, where there are many of these route relations. I am linking to waymarkedtrails.org rather than openstreetmap.org because waymarkedtrails focuses on route relations. Hit the "Routes" button at the bottom right to see how the relations have been tagged, e.g. many of them have the operator "Parque Nacional Sierra de Guadarrama": https://mtb.waymarkedtrails.org/#?map=13!40.7431!-4.0076 For general help on mapping mtb routes see the wiki: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:route%3Dmtb Also note that regardless of how you map something, the default tiles on osm.org serve many different purposes and will not necessarily display it in exactly the way you want. So you may well end up using some kind of overlay with OSM as a background in any case.
(13 Apr '21, 15:33)
alan_gr
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And here is a map of the park that I edited and put on our site. I would like to transfer this content to OSM.
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Here's how I arranged this https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/102876163#map=14/43.8243/18.3966 Please check if it is OK now? Since the content of this bike park is in a large area and is intersected by urban parts of local roads and houses, I edited the content on OSM by connecting all trails and adding them as a bike route, to import all the content of this bike park, which for now and physically exists. 2
Hurrah! https://cycling.waymarkedtrails.org/#?map=14!43.827!18.3828 https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12576391 .
(13 Apr '21, 17:29)
SomeoneElse ♦
Thank you very much. Looks like I made it. I made additional minor corrections to the map. I’m sending red “X” trails that I left out of the park because that’s how it should be. I managed to do it all at OSM. http://mtb.4is.info/mtb-city-road/19.PNG Here is the link to see: https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/12576391#map=13/43.8216/18.3813 Now I'm interested, how can I record these changes on this site "cycling.waymarkedtrails.org"? Do I have that option and if I have how is it done? What does this watch represent? Any information is worth a lot to me, because it will help me in the future to add content in the right way. Thank you so much for your help so far!
(14 Apr '21, 00:42)
MTB FORIS
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cycling.waymarkedtrails.org is updated automatically. You just have to wait a little.
(14 Apr '21, 07:31)
scai ♦
Another question related to "cycling.waymarkedtrails.org" .... There should be no bike paths here, if they do not exist physically, or if at least some minimum is not physically done, ie that the path is passable for mtb and has a physical tag ... Am I right?
(14 Apr '21, 11:01)
MTB FORIS
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Hi, I think it would be a good solution to use "relations". A relation links an item (like MTB tracks, signs, etc.) with another item - in your case the MTB City road. Therefore I would suggest to first create a polygon (= "area") with the boundaries of your "MTB City road" and leave it as it is for the moment. In the next step you should add a new feature (point, line or area) WITHIN the polygon you've created before. In the "edit feature" dialog on the left you can then add a relation (see at the bottom), where you then type the Name of the "MTB City road" polygon an click on it as it appears. That's it. Hopefully my explanation was understandable? Don't hesitate to ask again. 3
Adding a polygon (area) sounds wrong. Could you elaborate why this is necessary? A bicycle relation should consist of all ways that belong to the bicycle route. There is no polygon required. Well, except if this bicycle park is really an enclosed area. In this case a polygon is valid.
(26 Mar '21, 09:16)
scai ♦
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True, but as I understood the question from MTB FORIS it is kind of an enclosed area... Did you check out the map of his project? See here: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=15/43.8218/18.3951 I think of it like a park in town, where you can also relate the benches, trees, paths, etc. to the park itself (--> to the park polygon). Please correct me, if my understanding of relations is wrong?
(26 Mar '21, 11:13)
Brauni_map
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You wouldn't use a relation to link things like benches, paths, etc. to a park object. The fact that those amenities are geographically inside the area defined by the park is generally considered to be sufficient to indicate that they're part of the park. In the case of this question, I get the sense that this is a network of bike trails rather than a defined park area that encompasses all of these trails and the areas between them. If that's the case, then I think @scai is right that a bicycle route relation is probably the best fit.
(26 Mar '21, 16:13)
alester
I added more details to the “MTB City road” bike park and connected the contents of the park into one whole via “routes”. If you can take a look, then let me know if I'm working properly. You can check out my Hystori to see the latest changes I’ve made to OSM. It’s about me creating a polygon. However, the park has content that is separated by urban zones, such as the Jezero Toplik location, and three ENTRY / EXIT points at the edges of the park, where there are physically info boards. The only way I can see to import this content into one part of the park is that I have extended the polygon narrowly through the urban parts by local roads, being careful not to cross over to the surrounding buildings. I don't know if I'm doing this right?
(26 Mar '21, 21:06)
MTB FORIS
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And thank you all for your help! It means a lot to me because I have no experience with the OSM database.
(26 Mar '21, 21:06)
MTB FORIS
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Relations in OSM are used for a few different things - the most common are routes and (multi)polygons. It's a bit confusing for newcomers that the same object type in OSM is used for two very different things in the real world. The question was a little bit confusing, and I don't think that your answer actually gets to the root of the confusion here.
(10 Apr '21, 12:56)
SomeoneElse ♦
I write to the community to try to explain because I know the place. These are roads of various categories from asphalt to hiking trails. An attempt to make a polygon is impossible. It should be taken into account that the user is a beginner and can make a big mess
(11 Apr '21, 09:42)
sava eskimo
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I did a little research. I’m new and don’t know how to work at OSM. Is the solution to use "Relation", so that I connect all the paths in the park in one way? Did I understand that well? And if so, how is it done? I need a little more explanation.
Hello and congratulations on this beautiful project!
But it's unclear exactly what kind of help you're asking for.
It's also unclear whether "MTB City Road" is... * a physical park with defined boundaries (the area defined by https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/921882590) * a network of mtb-friendly roads and trails, as indicated in light blue and dark blue on http://mtb.4is.info/map/web-aplikacija-mtb-city-road-2/ * maybe both?
From previous conversations, I believe that it is "a network of mtb-friendly roads and trails". I don't believe that it is a "park" in any OSM sense.