As can be seen in the below link from the United Nations , it seems the administrative border at the north east corner of Sudan is not correct , how to fix this and align with the United nation map ?

https://www.un.org/Depts/Cartographic/map/profile/sudan.pdf

asked 26 Apr, 22:49

Ramrode's gravatar image

Ramrode
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closed 27 Apr, 16:43

Richard's gravatar image

Richard ♦
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1

also asked on the german forum under the sticky post about Wambacher's tool

(27 Apr, 12:12) escada

... and (as requested) the question has also reached the DWG.

(27 Apr, 12:16) SomeoneElse ♦
1

An an aside, please don't keep adding "new answers" every time - if you want to add a comment, just click the "add comment" button.

(27 Apr, 12:18) SomeoneElse ♦

The question has been closed for the following reason "Degenerating into "my opinion as to why the UN is right"" by Richard 27 Apr, 16:43


No, we do NOT follow the United Nations map. see Distputed Territories Information on how OSM handles the borders in disputed areas.

p.s. see the answer in this list of questions on this website.

EDIT: I made a typo in the original answer, I forgot the NOT.

permanent link

answered 27 Apr, 04:34

escada's gravatar image

escada
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accept rate: 21%

edited 27 Apr, 07:12

sorry, my mistake. we do not follow UN maps. I'll correct that typo

(27 Apr, 07:11) escada

If you want to use UN-borders, you will have to find a file with them and combine that file with OSM without borders. See some of the answers to the other similar/identical questions on how to use your own border definitions.

(27 Apr, 07:19) escada
1

Whilst escada's answer "we do NOT follow the United Nations map" above is completely correct, it's worth exploring why there is a discrepancy here.

OSM has https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1473947#map=8/22.162/35.299 for Egypt and https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/192789#map=7/20.674/33.398 for Sudan (and neither claim Bir Tawil).

Do you believe that Sudan has territorial control north of the currently-drawn border in OSM, and do you have evidence for that claim? If you do, please email OSM's Data Working Group (data@osmfoundation.org) about it and we'll have a look. - Andy, from the DWG.

(27 Apr, 10:47) SomeoneElse ♦

am not asking about Bir tawil area , am concerned about north east corner .

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halayib_Triangle

btw i really wonder if any evidence or references was provided to OSM to assume that halayib triangle is under egyptian control , can you share if any ?

my reference is an official map from the united nation , yet i still cant understand the resistance to correct what is clearly discrepancy .

i will email data@osmfoundation.org separately , but am still interested to know how it was concluded that this area (halayib triangle) was under the egyptian control ?

where the UN consider it part of sudan .

(27 Apr, 11:04) Ramrode
1

btw i really wonder if any evidence or references was provided to OSM to assume that halayib triangle is under egyptian control , can you share if any ?

It'll be in the sources used for each change that created the border as is. The full history for each country's border relation is available, and in addition to the sources and descriptions in each of the changesets on that there may be sources on individual ways.

(27 Apr, 11:29) SomeoneElse ♦

and how to view this history ?

(27 Apr, 11:38) Ramrode
2

First I looked up Sudan, and followed the link to the country-relation. This gives me https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/192789. I scrolled down and clicked "View history". This returns https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/192789/history

(27 Apr, 12:08) escada

i managed to track down the changes and found the triangle is correctly mapped in https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/4081614#map=6/17.508/38.760

nevertheless its not display , any way to display or load this part in main view of OSM - as part of sudan border ?

(27 Apr, 12:14) Ramrode

It's an administrative boundary without admin_level. That will never display on the carto-css rendering on OSM.org. You might create your own map which includes that area within Sudan though.

(27 Apr, 13:04) escada
1

@Ramrode please do not answer your own question, either update your question or comment on an answer.

@All this is not a discussion forum, please take general discussion on validity of boundaries to a more appropriate place.

(27 Apr, 14:59) SimonPoole ♦
showing 5 of 10 show 5 more comments
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i disagree in this case particularly , what is mentioned in the link is not aligned with the the statement that you are following the UN maps .

the discrepancies are significant and doest not reflect the realities on the ground or physical control .

further more the borders are clearly identified in the UN maps .

please refer to the below text extracted from the linked you shared .

“Borders and boundaries National borders are particularly sensitive. Currently, we record one set that, in OpenStreetMap contributor opinion, is most widely internationally recognised and best meets realities on the ground, generally meaning physical control. In areas without clearly defined borders, the line is approximate. Our database structure enables map­makers to easily ignore this set and substitute another more appropriate to your needs.”

how it was confirmed that the current map reflect the realities on ground ? or that is the most wildly internationally recognized ?

this opens up the jar of worms that can not be closed easily .

thats why UN maps are preferred as references .

side note , any way to draw my own borders instead of the existing one ?

permanent link

answered 27 Apr, 05:01

Ramrode's gravatar image

Ramrode
25113
accept rate: 0%

edited 27 Apr, 05:04

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question asked: 26 Apr, 22:49

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last updated: 27 Apr, 16:43

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