Mapping businesses in my home town in Mexico I have located seven tortillerias, shops that manufacture and sell tortillas exclusively. I would like some guidance on how to tag these facilities. The best I can come up with is shop=bakery, but I find that to be unsatisfactory.

asked 19 Dec '19, 16:56

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dougcb68
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Although @jmapb's suggestion works I would approach this differently.

I would assume tortillerias are culturally important things in Mexico. Similar examples, from my personal observation, are pasta shops in Argentina, churrerias in Spain (although generally a form of café/fast_food), crepe shop/manufacturers in Brittany and so on and so forth. If such places are common and likely to be in the hundreds or thousands it is entirely reasonable that they get their own tag. A good precedent is the amenity=biergarten in Germany and adjacent countries. I have no doubt that we miss many similar places in the global South which are familiar to local people, but don't necessarily fit well into the patterns of goods & services found in Europe & North America.

Obviously for OSM tagging we should try & use general tags for concepts which are universal, but neither should we relegate things which are important in a local context to obscure sub-tags, '''unless''' there is already a universal way of doing this (amenity=place_of_worship, amenity=fast_food, amenity=restaurant).

The production element can still be marked by craft tags when appropriate, but some shops will be outlets for larger manufacturers (at least in larger cities and towns).

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answered 20 Dec '19, 12:48

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SK53 ♦
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Just to verify that I understand your proposal, the tag should be: amenity=tortillera. This could then be supplemented with a name tag of name=Tortillera <business name=""> which would appear as a label on the map.

You are correct. This is a very important feature of the Mexican landscape. It is a very small place, indeed that does not have one of these facilities. As I mentioned in my original post, my small town (pop. 20,000) has at least seven that I have identified. Larger cities have one every few blocks. I have little doubt that there are tens of thousands of these businesses in Mexico, and, according to Wikipedia, they are common throughout Central America and the southern USA.

I, too, have noticed and been somewhat frustrated by the European/USA cultural bias in OSM. Are you aware of any ongoing discussion related to this issue?

(20 Dec '19, 15:51) dougcb68
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@SK53

neither should we relegate things which are important in a local context to obscure sub-tags, '''unless''' there is already a universal way of doing this

Thing is the point of amenity=biergarten comes from the outside food allowed feature, unlike a "beer garden" and other eatery establishments.

@dougcb68 If you would excuse my ignorance, I can't identify any crucial or distinct features of a tortilleria that would make it a amenity= yet. amenity=biergarten is only one example. Following your initial idea of shop=bakery, I might suggest shop=tortilleria. It can co-exist and be reinforced by food=torillas suggested by @jmapb, if needed be. You may see these as a specific form of shop=food. That being said, I don't know what's the status of shop=foodand food=.

(20 Dec '19, 17:24) Kovoschiz

I'd advise against amenity=tortillera. If it's primarily a place that people walk into, buy tortillas, and leave, then that's a shop. Cultural importance doesn't change that. The bodega is an important part of New York culture, and the tabac is an important part of French culture, but they're still shops.

The choice between shop=food and a more specific shop=* value is less important, but consider the value of being able to search for food shops without having to specify every sort of food in the query.

(Also, back to the amenity question... we shouldn't be mapping for the renderer, but just so you know, it's highly unlikely that amenity=tortillara will ever render on the default map, whereas the shop will.)

(20 Dec '19, 18:19) jmapb
1

@diugcb68: no, I would use shop=tortillera (or possibly shop=tortilla. My example of something using the amenity key was purely to show that there are well-established tags for regionally distinctive things (often with a significant cultural aspect). It was not meant to recommend the amenity key as the relevant key to be used in such situations Using shop keeps it under the same key as other places to buy food groceries.

(22 Dec '19, 09:29) SK53 ♦

I prefer to tag single-item food shops as shop=food. In this case I'd add food=tortillas.

To indicate small-scale manufacture of tortillas on premises, you could also add craft=tortilleria but don't expect anyone to see that except people who manually examine the tags.

feliz navidad, J

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answered 19 Dec '19, 17:47

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jmapb
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Sounds good to me. Thanks.

(19 Dec '19, 18:06) dougcb68

@dougcb68 You need to be careful with craft=. It is not very intended for retail, which is what you are looking for.

Comparing shop=bakery again, craft=bakery is a bit misleading in value. The wiki page itself even offered "bakehouse" as a more specific English word.

(20 Dec '19, 17:35) Kovoschiz

As I understand it, craft=* does not imply retail sales, but nor does it preclude them. If we want to be able to distinguish between a tortilla shop that's also a tortilleria (manufacturing on premises) from one that sells tortillas made elsewhere, adding craft=tortilla in addition to the shop tag makes sense to me.

Certainly there are those who believe differently, and a strict reading of whatever the wiki happens to say at the moment may support that belief. I've seen mappers remove craft=bakery tags from shop=bakery establishments for this reason. These mappers believe that it's more important to keep the craft tag off of retail establishments than to distinguish between bakeries that bake onsite and those that don't.

(20 Dec '19, 18:06) jmapb

I would also go with shop=tortilleria because this is a retail establishment. While it makes the food on-premises, bakeries and donut shops also do this and they are tagged as shops. On the other hand, craft=tortilleria would be appropriate for a small tortilla maker that produces tortillas to be sold at local markets and restaurants, but does not sell them directly to customers on location.

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answered 21 Dec '19, 07:50

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Joseph E
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question asked: 19 Dec '19, 16:56

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