Hello Could anyone help me getting a plain text file of every border crossing between Ireland and Northern Ireland? I'd like to open source-check this document https://www.infrastructure-ni.gov.uk/sites/default/files/publications/infrastructure/border-crossing-joint-report-final_0.pdf Thanks a lot! A.

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asked 09 Sep, 15:31

bouzinac's gravatar image

bouzinac
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You'll probably find what you want at https://github.com/osmie/border-crossings

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answered 09 Sep, 16:33

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Vincent de P... ♦
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Very interesting ! This links shows 358 points whereas the "official" Department of Transport docs says there would be 208 borders crossings (private and public roads). I wonder how many points are stored into the OSM map with the tag "Border NI/ROI" ? Thanks anyway for the link.

(09 Sep, 16:52) bouzinac

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/Mbe finds 265 tagged nodes.

With such a long uncontrolled border, it's not surprising that counts differ with methodology. OSM has a fair amount of details, I guess it might be counting small foot-only paths that official sources dismiss or aren't aware of. That doesn't make any of the counts wrong per se, it depends on your perspective.

(09 Sep, 17:30) Vincent de P... ♦

Hi there, thanks. Data have been uploaded to Wikidata and can show a map of 290 points : https://w.wiki/89J There is indeed often hiking trails that counts. More surprising, it happens there is houses Ireland side that can only exit to a North Ireland road (look close to slighlty north of Dundalk) Note also that on your link, there seems at least one missing "Border NI/ROI" = on the Carrickasticken road slightly northwest Dundalk and perhaps other dots.

(10 Sep, 09:35) bouzinac
1

You mentioned that the 208 crossings refer to private and public roads. I think that document claims to cover public roads (with a small number that are public on one side only, but none that are private on both sides).

Apparently the Irish Army has counted around 300 crossings, as reported here: https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/irish-army-identifies-300-border-crossing-points-37631474.html

I realise that as a leak of a confidential document this is very far from open data so you probably can't use it directly. But it does suggest that a large part of the difference is due to private crossings and other minor crossings - the report mentions "scores of private crossings".

The feature you mention isn't really surprising. The border was drawn using administrative boundaries defined in the 17th century, with no account taken of practicalities such as property divisions or the road network.

(10 Sep, 20:00) alan_gr

Hello, there!

I've just completed a personal (spatial) data analysis project in relation to Brexit called 'Identifying Irish Land Border Crossing Points Using OpenStreetMap Spatial Data Sets', which has yielded pretty good (and interesting) results, in my opinion.

If you're interested in seeing those results you can do so in the project report that you will find here: https://github.com/oriogain/Identifying-Irish-Land-Border-Crossing-Points-Using-OpenStreetMap-Spatial-Data-Sets/blob/master/Identifying%20Irish%20Land%20Border%20Crossing%20Points%20Using%20OpenStreetMap%20Spatial%20Data%20Sets.pdf

After reading the management summary, which is less than 2 pages long, you can, if you wish, skim through the other 20 pages which contain lots of pretty pictures.

All of the project materials (except for the OpenStreetMap roads network shape files that are too big for GitHub - so you'd have to go to Geofabrik for them) are also available for download in this project's GitHub repository here: https://github.com/oriogain/Identifying-Irish-Land-Border-Crossing-Points-Using-OpenStreetMap-Spatial-Data-Sets

I hope you find the results as interesting as I did!

Regards, Sean.

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answered 15 Sep, 18:08

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oriogain
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edited 15 Sep, 18:10

Thanks Sean, seems your results look very much the same (your work counts 210 notable crossing points) This query https://w.wiki/89J counts 290 (notable +those very small tracks, hiking trails, etc). It's noteworthy to say that there is roughly 283 Schegen border checkpoints (bear in mind there might be 1 in country A and one in coutry B). So what if Ireland comes into Schengen ? ;o) There would be at least closure of very small tracks + 2 border checkpoints for each country. Well, let's leave the politicians to ponder the answer.

(15 Sep, 20:06) bouzinac

To answer the original question, IMHO the document in question cannot be used as a source for OSM as, completely disregarding the rest, the location of the border crossings are clearly derived from the, just as clearly, copyrighted maps used in the document.

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answered 16 Sep, 10:46

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SimonPoole ♦
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