Relevant: https://help.openstreetmap.org/questions/39500/dutch-cycle-paths-with-cars-as-guests

The traffic sign: https://www.informatiebord.nl/oefenen/verkeersborden-overzicht/2335/l51-fietsstraat/

Example: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/251672751#map=15/51.4572/5.4427

The example, and more toward the north west, is a Fietsstraat. Both bicycles and cars are allowed, but it's mostly a cycling path, not a car street. Visually it's exactly like other (real) car streets, not like a cycling path. In this case that's confusing. Is that how OSM works? If cars are allowed, it looks like a car street? Or does it look like that because highway=residential? Maybe removing highway is better?, since there's also a motor_vehicle=destination? Or is motor_vehicle only a subspecification of highway?

Technically the example is correct, because both cars and cyclists are allowed, but the visuals are confusing. Almost all streets are both cars and cyclists, but Fietsstraat are really different.

asked 20 Sep, 17:41

De%20Rudie2's gravatar image

De Rudie2
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accept rate: 0%

edited 22 Sep, 10:00

aseerel4c26's gravatar image

aseerel4c26 ♦
31.1k15232531

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Don't remove the highway tag. This tag is necessary for all routable ways, regardless of whether they are for cars, bicycles or pedestrians.

(21 Sep, 08:03) scai ♦

Bicycle roads are, surprise, tagged as bicycle roads see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:bicycle_road

If this really fits from a legal pov you would need to discuss with the NL-community (the wiki seems to indicate that actually using bicycle_road is not common in NL, but rules of the road change and it may simply be that the wiki is out of date).

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answered 20 Sep, 18:47

SimonPoole's gravatar image

SimonPoole ♦
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accept rate: 18%

edited 20 Sep, 18:52

Okay, but I'm mostly curious about the style/rendering. When is a road rendered like a bicycle path and when like a car street etc? The example URL makes no distinction in this case. Maptiler does, somehow: https://www.maptiler.com/maps/#bright//raster/14.84/5.44754/51.45376 and even more differences around there. That's OSM data too, isn't it?

(20 Sep, 19:44) De Rudie2

And when I edit tags, how do I see the result?, to be sure OSM understands what I'm trying to convey. So many tags. So many many ways to render.

(20 Sep, 19:47) De Rudie2
4

You are adding to the OpenStreetMap -database-, rendering is completely independent and up to the creators of the individual map styles.

I would assume that for non-specialist maps you will simply get the rendering of the highway type, specialist maps may so it differently.

(20 Sep, 20:07) SimonPoole ♦
1

The standard map style on OSM has no strong preference for bicycle tags. It tries to show a map that is useful for all users (pedestrians, cyclists and motorists). An OSM-based map specialized for (NL) cyclists will choose a different rendering style with a stronger preference for showing bicycle tags. Either way, make sure to apply the correct tags as described in the OSM wiki, independent of the rendering.

(21 Sep, 08:43) scai ♦

OSM has their own map tiles, so there's probably some kind of standard. It's not JUST a db. I can add 30 tags that aren't recognized anywhere, or 2 that all map tile makers use. There must be some convention.

(21 Sep, 15:36) De Rudie2

There are certain tagging guidelines in the OSM wiki and there is common practice. These "standards" mainly apply to tags. For rendering (of which we are really talking here, aren't we?) there can't be a strict standard. A bicycle map will look completely different than a hiking map, both will omit certain features. And OSM's standard map style is more like a general purpose style, also omitting certain features. If you add bicycle tags that aren't rendered on the standard style then take a look at specific bicycle maps (see Bicycle -> See also and List of OSM-based services -> Biking, geocaching, hiking, sport). Always remember, don't tag for the renderer.

(22 Sep, 08:37) scai ♦
1

It's worth noting that cycle.travel prioritises fietsstraats tagged with one of the above when planning routes (it wouldn't surprise me if CycleStreets does, too). So the common tags are used and it's definitely worth adding them, even if the default openstreetmap-carto style doesn't show anything.

(23 Sep, 19:49) Richard ♦

according to one of the comments in the topic in the Dutch forum, there is an essential difference between bicycle road and cyclestreet. The former (German bicycle road) does not allow other traffic unless indicated. This is not the case for the Dutch and Belgian Fietsstraten (cyclestreets).

(26 Sep, 06:24) escada
showing 5 of 8 show 3 more comments

The Dutch and Belgian communities use either cyclestreet=yes or cycleway=cyclestreet in addition to (typically) highway=residential.

This is explained on https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Bicycle_tags_map, which is the legend for a Dutch map on cycling tags.

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answered 21 Sep, 05:47

escada's gravatar image

escada
15.6k14130247
accept rate: 20%

2

Wow, even more wikis... There are so many wiki pages about almost the same thing, with different info =(

(21 Sep, 15:35) De Rudie2

Note that bicycle tags map is not a tagging guideline! This page only explains which tags this specific map recognizes. These tags should but don't have to match OSM tagging guidelines.

(22 Sep, 08:33) scai ♦

@scai, I should have mentioned the cyclestreet page in my answer instead.

(26 Sep, 06:26) escada

@escada Maybe, or both should have been mentioned. However this was just a hint at De Rudie2 and a response to "even more wikis" :)

(26 Sep, 07:39) scai ♦
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