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Ok, so, some organisation mapped the whole Georgia (the country, not the U.S. state) ! Great !!! Big kuddo to them !

Unfortunately, they did not understood the way name should be used. (Or it is me ?)

This is what they did:

name: გაბაშვილის ქუჩა (Gabashvili St)
name:en: Gabashvili St
name:ka: გაბაშვილის ქუჩა

At every single object they created.

I would have expected the following:

name: გაბაშვილის ქუჩა
name:en: Gabashvili St
name:ka: გაბაშვილის ქუჩა

(With the name:ka being optionnal)

Is there an easy way to solve this ?

asked 06 Jul '11, 15:20

benoit's gravatar image

accept rate: 0%


Ok, it looks like we are talking he about a batch import of some data in this case.

Which lead to my real question : "If your local script is not latin, should you put a transliteration/translation in English between parenthesis in the name tag ?"

(should I better open a new question for that ?)

(06 Jul '11, 19:15) benoit

I've just checked it and I must say it was wise of them to do so. With my current locale settings those names are shown in native language. But I don't know it and it's not similar to any language I know, so it's the same as Chinese names: no sense at all without knowing the language. Yeah, it would be far better if all names were localized into all languages. But the way it's done now also works quite well.

(20 Jul '13, 15:44) int_ua

There's no easy way to "solve" this, and I think you're already getting ahead of yourself with wanting to "solve" something!

It's up to the local mappers how they decide to use the main name tag. In some countries they have decided to put the English translation (or latin transliteration) in braces after the local name. See Japan for another example. In other cases where there is more than one local language, that can lead to multiple languages being recorded in the name tag.

If you want to, you could discuss the situation with the local mappers. In the case of Georgia I suspect they are using the local name (quite correctly) but realising their script is not widely recognised, also using the transliteration into a more recognisable script.

If you want to find something that should be "solved", then I suggest concentrating on the the abbreviation of "St" that certainly should be expanded properly!

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answered 06 Jul '11, 18:30

Andy%20Allan's gravatar image

Andy Allan
accept rate: 28%

edited 06 Jul '11, 18:31

I've been reading the Key:Name page, and I thought the name was about the local name, period. If you are looking for something you can understand, just browse the map through a client that shows the name in your language. At least, it was my understanding.

In their case, this already lead to the following : their own viewer does not use the name key but let you choose between the name:en or name:ka.

(06 Jul '11, 19:07) benoit

Anyway, I just found the wiki page about the JumpStart import of Georgia inside OSM, which should lead me to the people who did it to discuss the best way forward.

(06 Jul '11, 19:11) benoit

The best way forward is to let local mappers get on with their mapping not to impose a set of rules which aren't necessarily practical. There are many places in the world where street signs are in more than one language, and frequently in different scripts. In many places one language cannot be privileged above another to offer a definitive local name: take a look at the conventions used on Swiss Topo maps in bilingual communes (e.g., Bienne/Biel, San Muzzeran/Sankt Moritz). OSM does not have a definitive approach to this type of situation and this will usually be determined by local mappers.

(07 Jul '11, 14:48) SK53 ♦

What makes you think benoit is not a local mapper? Or that Georgia uses the latin script as an official language? The current "solution" has been devised by an international organisation and not by local mappers. So it might not be unreasonable to want to "solve" this to bring it in line with normal use of the name tag.

(08 Jul '11, 14:19) apmon

AFAIK JumpStart's mapping in Georgia is largely done by local people with the JSI staff acting as facilitators ( I presume local mappers involved in their programme get paid at least in part.

If Benoit was local to Georgia I would presume he might have encountered JumpStart mappers, and discussed this issue with them.

In Wales street & locality names are bilingual and are now OFFICIALLY signed accordingly (Abertawe Swansea;Ffordd Gardd Uchaf - Upper Garth Road). OSM usage tends to use the English name, even in places which have a majority of Welsh speakers.

(08 Jul '11, 21:23) SK53 ♦

This with the language is a topic that shows up very frequently, and that often causes edit wars. It is a problem not only in countries where non-latin charset, but especially in ones where multiple languages are spoken (and even worst if in those areas some people speaking different languages don't like each other). Writing text in multiple languages could look as an optimal solution to deal with people who cannot read non-latin, or to reflect the legislation of multilanguage regions, like in Italian South Tyrol or in Switzerland, but first this option is not used consistently (for example 2nd languages are not entered in the key:name in Finland, Croatia or Slovenia), 2nd this cause crowded names, or names not to been shown in rendering when a street is too short. I think the best solution would be to finally GET RID OF THE NAME KEY: one should use name:en, name:cn and so on. The openstreetmap communities offers many tools to draw maps, therefore one could enter his favourite language in name:* and then draw maps using one, another or both languages, without imposing his preferences that sometimes seems to annoy other users. Personally when preparing maps with maperitive I try to avoid as much as possible the name key. Cannot understand why others can't do the same, avoiding all these discussions and editing wars.

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answered 28 Nov '13, 10:01

Zeno%20Kugy's gravatar image

Zeno Kugy
accept rate: 0%

edited 28 Nov '13, 10:03

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question asked: 06 Jul '11, 15:20

question was seen: 5,956 times

last updated: 28 Nov '13, 10:03

NOTICE: is no longer in use from 1st March 2024. Please use the OpenStreetMap Community Forum