Hi all,

user testerx1 is deleting right now hundreds of nodes, which belong to military areas in Singapore (e.g. airfields, building, sports tracks, etc.). I approached him and asked why he does it. Response was, that those elements shouldn't be accurately mapped.

I personally would oppose. You can see it in much more detail by just going to the satellite view in Google Maps/Bing, ...

I invited him to discuss here with us.

What do you think?

Cheers Rene

Example changesets: http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/36497305 http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/36496699

And many, many more. Thousands of nodes. Lots of work from other users.

Conversation with him:

On 2016-01-10 23:13:25 UTC rene78 wrote:

Hi testerx1,

in your last edits you mainly deleted a lot of data, on which other users have spent a lot of time to implement it. Can you tell us why?

One recommendation for the future: Please only delete large amounts of map data after asking in the OSM forum.

Thanks Rene

Sorry that i did not stated clearly on why i deleted a lot of data. The reason is that the huge area/data that I deleted fall in military areas that should not be in great details. I will try to write it in comments next time as there are still some area that have the same reason that i did not delete yet.

asked 11 Jan '16, 20:07

rene78's gravatar image

rene78
600243038
accept rate: 0%


Ideally, instead of writing a private message, use the changeset comment function; this allows others to see that someone has already commented on a changeset.

If you have contacted the user and get no satisfactory response, you can raise the matter with Data Working Group (data@osmfoundation.org) who will look into the matter and politely ask the user to change their behaviour.

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answered 11 Jan '16, 22:01

Frederik%20Ramm's gravatar image

Frederik Ramm ♦
69.9k806321096
accept rate: 24%

cartographer removes object properties   In the history of the object https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/474902685/history, please note that the cartographer deleted the source where I wrote where the name was taken from and that it is correct

https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?pid=749117#p749117 After I made a complaint to him on the forum at 8 59 today, he did additional editing and destroyed the object even more https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70311067

(16 May, 19:50) Poliakoff My...

Please check the accepted answer of Frederik Ramm above. You can ask them to revert those changesets or do it yourself, if you don't receive a satisfactory answer from the other mapper.

(16 May, 20:02) rene78

https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/7755021/history KKS continues destruction of object characteristics and ignore this discussion of which he is notified here https://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/70311067

(20 May, 07:56) Poliakoff My...

Hi write a message to the board (Andy) and ask for a block on the users name / Id. Please use this link https://wiki.osmfoundation.org/wiki/Data_Working_Group

(20 May, 11:43) Hendrikklaas

When someone is deleting legitimate mapping like this it is best to revert the changes quickly, which does a cleaner job than waiting until the map has been further edited. You can revert changes using JOSM, if you aren’t confident to do it yourself you can ask the community for help on one of our contact channels.

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answered 11 Jan '16, 22:26

Wynndale's gravatar image

Wynndale
5651515
accept rate: 7%

Reading through the Wiki pages on military mapping, there are references to the legality of mapping military installations, even from aerial images. Some cursory Googling hasn't found any specific Singaporean laws pertaining to this, but I haven't looked in great detail.

Since this could be a legal matter, is there a more specialised form where this could be discussed? I couldn't find an appropriate mailing list or OSM forum, but that doesn't mean there isn't one.

(12 Jan '16, 08:04) Lightsider
7

Even in a country where it is illegal to map this or that, there can be no law forcing somebody to undo the maping work done by somebody else (how would the legal system choose who does the undo work ?). For example, that's why OSM has accurate geometry in China but GM and other don't. And if the initial mapping can be done remotely, legally forbiding it is really naive. Anyboby deleting that kind of data is both overzealous and naive.

(12 Jan '16, 10:22) Vincent de P... ♦
1

That sounds plausible. Thank you for clarifying.

(12 Jan '16, 12:32) Lightsider
3

@Vincent while your statement is understandable, we do have to be aware that mapping from a far does not make it legal to use the data in a country with restrictive regulations. In the end we need to tread a thin line between the position that mapping and map data should be free and usability of our dats (for China this is not directly a concern since mapping and using non-approved geo data is illegal there to start with).

For the above reasons we typically make it a local community decision what kind of detail of mapping of sensitive areas should be done. It is not clear in the case of SG that there is actually a consensus on the issue.

(13 Jan '16, 13:01) SimonPoole ♦
1

@Simon Good point about data reuse. But this is pretty much the same problem as contested borders, where different countries expect a different map. Just as we need tools to present different borders to indians and pakistanese, we apparently need tools to hide military data from singaporeans.

(13 Jan '16, 13:44) Vincent de P... ♦
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question asked: 11 Jan '16, 20:07

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