I always used openstreetmap to locate climbing rocks in the Saxon Switzerland (Elbsandsteingebirge) but the rocks have been removed and only very few remain. Why????

asked 03 Oct '15, 19:39

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Saggse
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closed 07 Oct '15, 15:27

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SimonPoole ♦
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Can you post a link please, to do that centre map on the area and copy the bit like this. http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/46.35746/9.33997 i could not find the place from your description. Failing that the lat long should help

(03 Oct '15, 20:14) andy mackey

do you mean e.g. https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/251874518#map=19/50.91272/14.22892&layers=D (natural=rock)? please zoom in and show us a position where there was a rock.

(04 Oct '15, 00:46) aseerel4c26 ♦

https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/50.91096/14.20129&layers=D all prior peaks are still marked with small blue circles but the symbol (triangle) is not there. At some points, like a bit east of the position i posted, there are still peaks (here, the only climbing peak is "Onkel) but most of them disappeared. One could just use the blue marks to put them all back

(04 Oct '15, 10:37) Saggse

by the way: you can switch on and off the data layer (the blue circles and lines) in the layer menu on the right side. The you can click the "blue marks" and you will see the raw object details in the left panel.

(04 Oct '15, 11:51) aseerel4c26 ♦

The question has been closed for the following reason "Other" by SimonPoole 07 Oct '15, 15:27


e.g. for https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/251875061 the main tag was changed by user Chrisss Gü from "peak" to "rock" at 2015-09-06 (29 days ago). Peaks show up on the standard map, rocks not (see those other questions: 1, 2).

What are those objects in reality? If they are just rocks but no peaks, then the change was right. In this case you should use a map which shows rocks. Likely one of those hiking maps shows them! Alternatively you could use an overlay of rocks onto the standard map - e.g. by using this overpass turbo query which highlights all rocks.

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answered 04 Oct '15, 11:51

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aseerel4c26 ♦
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edited 04 Oct '15, 11:59

Asseerel4c26, Elbsandsteingebirge is also known as the German Monument valley. Just large Sandstone structures or towers standing on their own.

(04 Oct '15, 22:31) Hendrikklaas

They are indeed just rocks, see for example https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Schrammsteine_LC0185.jpg . But they are very tall and thus also the highest point of the hill. So it really depends on the definition of "peak".

(05 Oct '15, 08:02) scai ♦

We're looking at about 1300 climbing rocks that are seperated from the hills by a gap at least 10 meters deep and 2 meters far. I'm exclusively talking about structures that represent a value from a climber's point of view. thank you for the information, aseerel4c26. I tried contacting Chrisss Gü and asked him to change them back to "peak". Waiting for a response now.

Rock may be correct in a lingual sense, but it has the negative effect that I can't easily tell others to use OSM without explaining data layers or that overpass turbo query to them. It also looks a lot nicer with the rocks being marked as "peaks" thank you again

(05 Oct '15, 15:40) Saggse

@Saggse: it is important to tag the objects right – not how it looks on that one map (there are many other maps based on OSM's data). See tagging for the renderer. If they are no "peaks" in the tag's sense, then they should not be tagged as peaks.

If or not should, preferably, be discussed somewhere else (mail, changeset comments, forum, mailing list). This help site is technically not really suited for this.

(05 Oct '15, 18:11) aseerel4c26 ♦
3

Discussion about differentiation between rock and peak for the Elbsandstein has been triggered on the German mailing list. Wiki definitions are a bit fuzzy in this case.

(06 Oct '15, 20:17) P24

User Chrisss Gü wrote by mail (cited with permission): "Ich kann mich irgendwie nicht bei OSM help einloggen, deshalb schreibe ich erstmal hier.

Ich sehe ein, dass ich vielleicht vorher jemand hätte fragen sollen, deshalb könnte ich das wieder zurücktaggen um sich dann in einer anschließenden Diskussion sich für natural=rock oder natural=peak zu einigen. Das von einigen eingebrachte Arument, dass man natural=peak nehmen solle, weil es dann auf Mapnik gerendert wird, sehe ich nicht ein, da das Tagging für den Renderer ist. Dafür solle man Spezailkarten wie http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:sport%3Dclimbing#Renderer nehmen.

Für mich gibt es einen Unterschied zwischen einem Berggipfel (Fichtelerg/Gr. Winterberg) und einem Felsen/Klettergipfel/Kletterfelsen (Barbarine/Bloßstock/Onkel) in der Sächsischen Schweiz, weshalb ich dafür plädiere, diese unterschiedlich zu taggen, dafür finde ich auch natural=rock passend. Dies hat zum Beispiel zum Vorteil, dass Wanderkarten, die die einzelnen Kletterfelsen nicht darstellen möchten, Berg(gipfel) jedoch schon, differenzieren können.

Ich habe jetzt erstmal meine Änderungen revertiert, um dann in der Diskussion eine Lösung zu finden."

(07 Oct '15, 14:51) aseerel4c26 ♦
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question asked: 03 Oct '15, 19:39

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last updated: 07 Oct '15, 15:27

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